Joy, did you read ANY of the scriptural references I provided in my post on being Children of God?

Ah… the good old days of “The Cain Theory…”

My point was to get people to think outside of traditional thoughts. To realize that most of all religion cannot be proven by Scriptures alone. Most all of religion is based simply on human thoughts and constraints and then scripture is found to back up whatever it is one wishes or thinks.

My other point was that the Bible cannot be used to prove that God doesn’t have sex, nor does it prove or disprove a heavently mother…

Just like Dando thinks he can prove God doesn’t have a body, I think I can prove he does… so now what? Everyone can prove anything they want using scriptures… just like Katy Jane said…

Honestly, though, I don’t find the article you posted very convincing about God not having a literal body. I don’t necessarily think that He does–but just that I don’t think that we can know. And that’s okay by me. I think that you can find scriptural evidence to back up anything that you think of (and I think that Kullervo used to do that for fun on his mission–think of wacky random things and look for scriptures to back it up…).

I think it’s hard with the Bible (or the BoM, really) to know whether to take scriptures as literal or figurative… and besides choosing arbitrarily (or based on what makes the most sense to you and your worldview–you being a general you) I don’t think that we can really do that effectively (or prove in any way that we are right.)

So, I’m left to conclude that I don’t know. And that it doesn’t matter. Maybe God has a body that he can transform. Who says that He would be stuck in one body? Why can’t He have a physical body that He can morph from a 6′4 man to a 5′2 one?

I can write a story that I haven’t heard before. It might have themes and plots that are more or less universal, but the particular arrangement and perhaps even many of the plot devices will be something totally new.

I could invent a new poetic form, one that never existed before. I haven;t experienced it, which is exactly why I can create it.

Any creator or inventor creates something totally new, that they have never before experienced.

I guess what I meant to get at was for you to prove from the Bible that God doesn’t have sex, that Heavenly Mother doesn’t exsist, etc. My point being that most religions don’t answer these questions and base their own belief on nothing but what they presume.

Why wouldn’t God have sex? There’s nothing wrong with it when not perverted… why wouldn’t God have a wife? In Genesis the word Elohim is used… Gods, plural… how does that rule any of this out? I think many see these thoughts as blasphemous only because they’ve been taught that since a child. He’s still the Supreme being. It doesn’t cancel that out. Nor does it mean there will ever come a day we won’t worship Him. Just like for your kids, they may grow up but you’ll never not be their father.

The only thing that makes sense to me is actual families and being able to be like Him… which, btw I learned in the first Evangelical Church I attended after being ‘born again.’ It’s a huge one too. Grace Fellowship in Tulsa, OK. Pastor Bob Yandian. I don’t think he taught eternal families, but he did teach we become gods because we become like Him.

And I don’t expect you to accept having a heavenly mother. She loves you anyway. ;o) I believe in her because my intitial revelation that was my born again experience told me she exsists, and I cannot for the life of me see a Father and a Son with no mother. As one of our hyms says, “In the heavens are parents single, no, the thought makes reason stare.”

I see everything here as a type and shadow of what is in heaven, and that tells me that families are eternal. What would be the point down here? I’ve thought these things long before becoming Mormon. And much of it was through revelation just like I came to know Jesus as my Lord and Savior.

And I believe ALL humans here are spirit children of Heavenly Father… whether or not we choose to return home is up to us and the choices we make here in mortality. And yes, I do believe that Satan, Lucifer was a child of God in spirit, but chose rebellion and fell and became the Devil, the father of all lies. And I believe the only ones that end up with him are people who truly make the choice to follow him. Those that don’t wish to go to the Celestial Kingdom will end up in a lower glory. Not because God sends them there, it’s what they choose. D&C 76 explains that.

What in the Bible would preclude us being Spirit children?

My cats think they are gods too… LOL They don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t want to worship them any time they deem it. I always wonder what it would be like to have a self-esteem that told me all people would love me and want to pay total attention to me just by showing up. Funny.

I’m sorry my answer did not satisfy. I’ll try again. God made men and women because he simply chose to. His reasoning for this may be deep and profound or it could be arbitrary, ultimately I don’t know. I believe that neither men nor women represent the full image of God. Only when we look at masculinity and femininity together can we start to get an idea of the character of God. He is both male and female.

God saw that loneliness was not good for men (the first thing God declares as “not good”). It was not good, because God created us to be in relationship. He created Adam from the beginning with the need for Eve.

Claiming the pre-existence doesn’t answer the question any better than that. All it does is push the question further back in time. Why were there men and women in the pre-existence? Why were Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother created as male and female? Who created them? Why did He/They/It create them that way? It puts you into an eternal regress.

Concerning an Eternal Mother, the burden of proof is really on you to show me why I should believe She exist. She is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible or even any LDS scripture. I’d be happy to look at any evidence you have for Her existence but right now all you are offering me is your own hunch. Perhaps I’m ignoring my own “Heavenly Mother” shaped hole, but I need something with some sort of spiritual authority to evaluate the claim that She is real. At this point that statement is no more meaningful than saying that God is really a cat (my cat thinks that she is a god).

I believe I have answered your question about our status as “children of God’; it is metaphorical. You can read my response again here: Children of God. I don’t believe you ever answer my question to you about how the Bible says that some can be called children of God and others are clearly not children of God. I don’t think this lines up well with you belief that we are all given a literal spiritual birth by our Heavenly Mother and Father.

I also found this interesting article on why God does not have a literal body. http://www.wcg.org/lit/God/god_body.htm

Thanks as always for the invigorating dialogue. You make this fun.

Didn’t mean to pop up posting as someone else, sorry.