Comments on: Wow, We Can Get Ugly

By: Jill Martin Rische

Jill Martin Rische — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 02:36:42 +0000

Interesting commentary, but unfortunately, Aaron and Tim, you are simply incorrect. The clique of Mouw, Hazen, and Johnson is one I am very happy not to be included in.

As to EMNR, it’s amusing to read people commenting on events they only see from the outside. I certainly represented my experiences with EMNR correctly…after all, I am in a position to know exactly what happened. And I thought Frank did an excellent job of revealing the characters of Hazen and Johnson.

jmho

By: MD

MD — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:45:31 +0000

C. S. Lewis said:
“The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were “gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him–for we can prevent Him, if we choose –He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said. 20

“Regarding the debate about faith and works: It’s like asking which blade in a pair of scissors is most important.”
— C.S. Lewis

By: frofreak

frofreak — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:42:16 +0000

We (mormons) have that particular “ordinance” as well . I think food is the universal “doctrine”.

By: Aaron Shafovaloff

Aaron Shafovaloff — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 02:31:36 +0000

Less focus on institutional hierarchy and more focus on congregationalism and drawing doctrine directly from the Bible… That’s the way to go! It makes for some messy church situations, but it’s the best way to encourage heart-authenticity among members, in my opinion.

Plus, in baptist churches you get to practice the third ordinance… the sacred Sunday potluck! Mmmmm….

By: Seth R.

Seth R. — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 01:09:13 +0000

In the Mormon blogging community, we tend to blame this on the big “correlation” movement that happened back in the 1960s where the LDS Church was largely standardized both in curriculum, and the degree of centralized control.

It’s not something most bloggers (myself included) are all that thrilled about, but…

Oh well, guess being in the “true church” had to come with some drawbacks eh? =)

By: Kullervo

Kullervo — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:47:50 +0000

Indeed. In my experience, the rest of the mainstream Christian world welcomes healthy debate and disagreement, whereas Mormonism does not have much tolerance for it at all, so everyone pats themselves on the back and talks about how wonderful it is that “we all believe the same things.”

By: Aaron Shafovaloff

Aaron Shafovaloff — Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:18:57 +0000

I think a big factor is that evangelical Christians aren't that ashamed of a reasonable degree of theological diversity within the church. Sometimes in a Bible study when a controversial passage comes up opposing evangelical viewpoints will be presented to the class. In Mormonism, there seems to be an emphasis on an image of uniformity, where nothing further could be from the truth. Many Mormons are deeply divided over huge issues (like the past of God the Father or the idea of celestial polygamy), but there aren't healthy outlets for debate and discussion over the controversies. Another big factor is that Mormonism is certainly more atheological.

By: Tim

Tim — Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:09:49 +0000

Walk onto any Sunday School class and take what you think is the opposing view on Pre-destination or “once-saved-always-saved” and you will quickly learn that Evangelicals, at least, don’t avoid controversy.

Heck, just listen to some of the audio I provided and you will see that we don’t avoid controversy (to our detriment at times).

By: Seth R.

Seth R. — Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:59:35 +0000

“Potentially controversial topics are carefully avoided in established church meetings. Religious topics of this kind are typically referred to as “the mysteries.” They are issues considered dangerous to speculate about because they may lead to heresy. Non-religious topics of a potentially controversial nature are labeled “political issues.” They, like “the mysteries,” are considered taboo in a church sanctioned setting. Criticism of any church leader, which is likewise taboo, is sometimes described as behavior such “leads to apostasy.””

Aaron, I’d be interested in seeing how Mormonism stacks up against other religions in this regard.

By: Aaron Shafovaloff

Aaron Shafovaloff — Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:27:02 +0000

Speaking of Huggins, I recommend his online article, "An Appeal for Authentic Evangelical-Mormon Dialogue"