Did We Get the Right Jesus?

Tuesday Evening, February 13, 7:30 p.m.
Sutherland Auditorium, Biola University
Free and Open to Everyone
Featuring Fred Sanders, Ph.D.

Muslims say the New Testament writers corrupted the true picture of Jesus. Mormons say that the real Jesus was lost in the Great Apostasy. The DaVinci Code says that Emperor Constantine invented our Jesus. Did history fail us? Do we have the right Savior?

In this wonderfully stimulating presentation, Dr. Fred Sanders will explore the image of Jesus through the conflicts and intrigue of history. Not to be missed!

Oh, we have the right Jesus–and this presentation will show you how to make the compelling historical case yourself.

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11 thoughts on “Did We Get the Right Jesus?

  1. What mormons say the “real” Jesus was lost in the apostacy?

    An apostacy is a falling away from truth. If anything, we got lost in the apostacy, not Jesus.

    Christ knows exactly where He is.

  2. You know Dando – ‘the real Jesus was lost’ ??? it’s that kind of wording repeated over and over that leads to outright lies told about what LDS people believe. That’s why I get somewhat persnickity about what you present here. People read things like that and think it’s true. I well remember all the lies I was told about the Church over the twenty years I attended Evangelical and Protestant Churches. And most of the people don’t even realize they’re repeating propaganda, they are simply repeating over and over what they’ve heard. I did it myself. But the fact was, I didn’t know what LDS believed and couldn’t possibly have.

    I have a suggestion, one I’ve already suggested… take the lessons from the Missionaries of the Church and actually take the time with them to learn what we really believe… not just one or two lessons, learn it thoroughly so that you will really know what you are talking about. Ask all the questions you want. I can’t think of a better way for anyone to know and understand what we believe than to take all of the lessons from the Missionaries. If you are sincere in wanting to know, that’s what you’d do.

  3. Hi Joy,

    I’m sorry that upset you so greatly. I was just posting an advertisement for a free lecture that I thought might be of interest to some.

    I am curious why you are so upset by this though. I think it’s a generally true statement. The LDS church teaches that a Great Apostasy occured and as a result the full truth about Jesus and the Gospel was lost. Am I incorrect in saying this? I was taught this directly by the missionaries. It follows that if the truth about Jesus was lost, then the “true Jesus” was lost to Christianity and wasn’t “found” again until Joseph Smith revealed further light.

    I’ve already conceded that the wording was not the most eloquent way of expressing LDS teaching on the subject. But I’m confused why you view this as an outright malicious lie. I don’t see any defamation of ill intent in the statement at all. Can you please illuminate me better on the offense? I have direct contact with the people putting on the seminar and would be happy to correct them so that they don’t pass on any more propoganda against your church which I know is not their intent.

    Thanks for your suggestion to contact the missionaries. I’ve already been through the missionary discussions with them. I think the missionaries have great intent and zeal but I feel like I’ve learned from them all that I can. Now I prefer to talk with people with a little bit more wisdom, experience and deeper understanding of what they are teaching.

  4. First, I’m not going to go into actual LDS Doctrine on the Restoration in this post. I am only going to deal with the ‘offense’ as you call it.

    I never said it was an ‘outright malicious lie.’ I said, “it’s that kind of wording repeated over and over that leads to outright lies told about what LDS people believe.” And what I said following that takes all the ‘malicious’ out of it. It can be a lie and not necessarily be ‘malicious.’

    There seems to be an ongoing misrepresentation by you of what we believe. And as I pointed out, it is out of context badly-worded statements that lead to all the misrepresentations of the Church and all the myths and propaganda out there. That is my concern.

    A person cannot take volumes of Jesus Christ’s doctrines and LDS teaching and encapsulate them in “Mormons say that the real Jesus was lost in the Great Apostasy.” Even your teensy bit more elaborate response doesn’t cover it. :o)

    And one more additional comment… The young missionaries that you claim don’t have enough ‘wisdom, experience and deeper understanding’ are the ones Jesus has chosen to spread His gospel in these latter days. Something to ponder.

  5. I’ve been pondering this for the past hour or so and realized that it wouldn’t even occur to me anymore to ask whether or not I have the right Jesus. That’s what comes from the power of the Holy Ghost. Anyone can know for sure without looking to someone with a Ph.D. I don’t need a ‘compelling historical case’ to know that I know the Savior of all mankind or His and my Father.

    I love the site I referenced above because after my conversion and Baptism I had a friend who wanted some answers but was totally unwilling to listen to the Missionaries due to what some in her church told her (that Mormansim is a cult) so she didn’t want to even entertain the notion. But I set out to explore the Bible and answer some questions that a book she gave me posed. I experienced a wonderful tour from the Holy Ghost through the Scriptures into passages I had never seen before, but suddenly there they were and I understood them! Then I happened onto Jeff’s site and began to read the facinating stuff he has compiled over the years. I like His site for a reference.

    But for me, the witness of the Holy Ghost cannot be shaken or questioned. I’m glad I accepted the truth of this Church through faith by prayer and the witness from the Holy Ghost, because if I accepted it through thinking it was ‘proven’ somehow by a man, my faith with be as house built on sand. But when your faith comes from God Himself, it cannot be shaken. And you won’t need anyone with a Ph.D. to seal your faith or shore it up. Because then someone else with a Ph.D. can come along and shake it again.

  6. Hi Joy,

    Thanks for the link. I understand the LDS position on the Apostasy, but I’m sure that link will prove to be useful to other reading the blog. I really appreciate the love, grace and respect that you strive to convey in your comments.

    Part of the reason I started this blog is so that LDS and Evangelicals can find a place to stop talking past one another and seek better understanding and common ground. If I, or another Evangelical, is saying something that is offensive, misleading or inaccurate I would like to see that corrected. Not simply pointed and sneered at, but corrected. If there is a word or phrase that keeps us from growing into deeper conversation, then I want to know how to communicate better. I want the cause of Christ and his Kingdom to be advanced more than I want to set up sides in a polemical debate.

    So I need your help. How could this phrase have been better expressed: “Mormons say that the real Jesus was lost in the Great Apostasy.” Keep in mind the larger point of the paragraph was not about Mormonism, but what they think is the historical reliability of Classical Christainity’s view of Jesus. I know the people involved and I KNOW the last thing they want to do is offend the LDS.

  7. “The LDS Church teaches that the Authority and keys to perform ordinances were lost when the Apostles died and therefor men over time corrupted the knowledge of the nature of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ which led to the great Apostasy and believe only Restoration, not Reformation, was needed to bring the Church along with the keys to performing the ordinances and the knowledge of the nature of God and His Son.”

    OR just simply leave off the first paragraph as it simply implies that you’re going to learn how to prove them wrong. lol But only until people hear OUR Ph.D.s, who could prove them wrong. lol :oD

    And remember, I don’t speak for the Church.

    cJohn71, what would you say?

  8. well you can’t leave off the first paragraph because the point of the lecture is to answer objections raised by others. If those objections were never raised, there would be no point in hosting the lecture.

    Based on your input, how about this “Mormons teach that the truth about Jesus was corrupted in the Great Apostasy.”

  9. I would hardly call the Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ an ‘objection’, but I guess it really doesn’t matter how you say it since the whole intent of the lecture is to ‘prove’ the Lord’s Church wrong by using the teachings of men mingled with Scripture.

    I’m sure glad I have a the witness of the Holy Ghost… 🙂

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