A New Low Point

Evangelical and LDS relationships hit a new low point. This audio clip is from the Evangelical show “Heart of the Matter.” Hosted by “Born Again Mormon” author Shawn McCraney. A caller tries to silence him by the power of the Melchizedek Priesthood.

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24 thoughts on “A New Low Point

  1. That is pretty funny. Two guys, Shawn & the Melchizidek priesthood holder, throwing their religious thunderbolts at each other. Too bad that after Shawn jettisoned the mormon fairy tale, he simply substituted another one in its place.

    But it was scary that the supposed priesthood holder wanted to call the Danites down on Shawn. The Danites were Mormon hitmen.

  2. I don’t think I dare listen.

    It always irritates me when people from my camp wander into online forums and start trying to pull a personal testimony-bearing.

    The problem is, those only have impact when you’ve got a face to face meeting and the other person can feel your presence (or spirit if you like). Online, it just ain’t got that zing.

    As for Priesthood power, tricky business that. But I’m pretty darn sure it doesn’t operate in favor of coercion and personal ego-gratification.

  3. Wow, I may disagree with ““Born Again Mormon” author Shawn McCraney”, but this guy, “The Rebuker”, is just plain wrong! That’s all there is to it.

    He made a fool of himself and I’m personally embarrassed. First, he did it wrong! He did nothing “In the name of Jesus Christ”. Second, he said that he rebukes him “by my Priesthood”….who does this guy think he is?..The Priesthood is the LORD’s not his! He is merely a servant.

    Lastly, I’m no judge, but I call a bit (maybe more) of “unrighteous dominion”…rebuking and threatening, sentencing Shawn to Perdition, all by “his” own authority…wishing the Danites down on Shawn…what a joke!

  4. This is quite embarrassing. I’m not sure what he thought was going to happen- that Shawn would shrivel up and die on the spot? That his tongue would be stuck to the roof of his mouth and he couldn’t speak?

    Priesthood ordinances depend totally on whether it is the will of the Lord that the requested action occur. I doubt the Lord cares enough to stop some Evangelical radio host from speaking ill of the Church.

  5. I have to agree that this guy is an embarrassment to the LDS faithful. I didn’t hear what the radio show host said that made him say such a thing, but I doubt it was something that merited his comments. Wishing the Danites to come back just punctuates how wrong he is. I think it also shows that just because you are in a Bishopric doesn’t mean you are some sort of spiritual example to be followed.

  6. AACK! Embarassing. Makes me wonder what the context was. Was the radio host talking about temple stuff or something?

    For my two bits, though, I thought the Danites formed in Missouri, the Mormon’s answer to the mobs that came after them. He’s right about them being thugs and killing people and what not, but it just happened a little earlier.

    JS did deny knowledge of the Danites, but it was at a Grand Jury. I know it’s bad to imply that he may have been committing perjury, but maybe he did. There is also something to the argument that he did NOT know about the society’s formation and sent trusted men to join soon after hearing about their organization, men he could use to steer the group’s actions away from evil. I’m no expert, though.

  7. Embarassing. Makes me wonder what the context was. Was the radio host talking about temple stuff or something?

    He was using the Adam-God doctrine as evidence that an LDS prophet can lead people astray.

    Seth, I’ll graciously claim the yahoos waving garments over their heads at temple square if you claim this guy.

  8. I hate comming in, in the middle of a conversation. We just don’t know what was going on here. I just wish people didn’t bring out dirt in public like this caller and radio dude. The caller should have had this talk off air, then he may have come to the relization that the radio dude was trying to get attention with what ever it was that set off the caller. Did’n lesten to the whole thing, but got the just of it right away. Sad to think we too often speak with out lestening, if you know what I mean. Many voices cry out and are wrong, but I find it is the quiet voice that speaks truth.

  9. I assume that the “rebuker” was rebuking because the host quoted word for word part of the endowment ceremony. (Not a whole lot was quoted, but enough to get this anarchist’s attention.) This makes me think that he was most likely a real LDS and not someone just posing as one. I hope the ignorant and stupid antics of this man are an anomaly, but my own experience with bishoprics has taught me to place the appropriate emphasis on Alma’s lesson: “Trust no one to be your teacher nor your minister, except he be a man of God, walking in his ways and keeping his commandments.” (Mosiah 23: 14) It’s like The Shadow says, “Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?” I guess sometimes it takes a radio show to reveal the hearts of men.

  10. I dunno, something is too fishy about this…but I have no proof, so we have to assume he is what he claims to be. I have always assumed there were people like this in the church, it would be almost impossible for there not to be. I will say, however, that I have never met a member of a bishopric that would do such a thing in such a way (not to say they wouldn’t think these things, just not put themselves on the air to confront him). Then again, I’ve never lived in Utah 😉 . As a member of the bishopric, why would he not have at least done it in the name of Jesus Christ? And the Dannites? That is just too much.

  11. I could only listen to the first few seconds before I had to turn it off. This guy really is an embarrassment; I would expect that type of behavior from an over-zealous missionary, not a member of a bishopric. I hope it was staged, but it was likely genuine.

    Is it really a new low point, though? I’d like to think that today there are many more on both sides willing to engage in respectful dialogue, and that this type of thing (though that it happens at all is awful) is becoming less prominent.

    One can hope, can’t he?

  12. Here’s what I was told before I joined the Church: All churches have flaky people. The difference is that in non-LDS churches you can ignore them if you wish. But in the LDS church they’re given responsibilities.

    I have found there is lot of truth in that statement.

  13. Come on, guys. If he called on the Danites, it was FOR SURE someone mocking us, not a real member. HOAX!

  14. Jared C.,

    I agree. That is exactly how it struck me (almost screamed at me).

    Bret,

    I would love to say it was for sure a hoax, but I can’t unfortunately. We just have no proof and can only go on what we feel. This looks like a perfect window for a comment from Kullervo… 😉

  15. Well, if everyone is going to call hoax, I suppose we should grant to Tim that some of the “protesters” outside temple square might be overzealous BYU students trying to make evangelicals look bad…

  16. (Assuming that its not staged….. I don’t know enough about McCraney to make any judgment about it. The Danite comment seemed over-the-top, hardly anybody talks about danites like that)

    Mormons have to claim this guy (guys like this). He expresses an “old-school” Mormon attitude that you can invoke the power of the priesthood to rebuke apostates and those that desecrate sacred things.

    You can find these sorts of comments by the hundreds in the discourses of Brigham Young, Joseph Smith and early apostles.

    He is speaking to McCraney mormon-to-mormon and attempting to point out how he has gone against his covenants. Probably would not have said the same thing to

    Sure, he is a jackass, but so was Brigham Young in this regard.

    That said, McCraney seems to be a complete jackass, as most in-your-face type evangelical preachers appear to me.

  17. I think this guy is the real deal. He sounds just like a Bishop I used to have. People who were born and raised in Utah would not understand those of us who live in the “mission field.” These mission field leaders can sometimes be very full of themselves and whip out the priesthood card very fast. My vote is this guy is the real thing – I have experienced leaders like him first hand.

  18. Jared C.
    I second your statment. Although I still think it was all perputrated by the “Shock Jock” evangilical community.

  19. I would like to assure anyone who cares that the caller “John” (who says he is from O’Fallon, Illinois) was no set up. Whether LDS or not, I cannot say, but as the host of the show, I can attest to the fact that we have NEVER and we NEVER will arrange or set up a caller. We take them as they come. The only thing we will not do is allow a person to call from a blocked or private number.

    John the caller, in my opinion, having been LDS forty years, was legit. He focused too much on my secret sins as a means to embarrass and legitimize me to be a friend. Plus, he spoke stalwart LDS too well to be a fake.

  20. Which doesn’t rule out an ex-Mormon.

    But anyway, I’ve already acknowledged we have our share of nuts.

    Here’s hoping Shawn for a higher caliber of discourse on your show in the future.

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